BierTalk English 8 – Talk with Jessica Martinez, Beer Sommelière, Consultant and Brewer from Mexico City, Mexico

This time the BierTalk goes to Mexico – there we meet Jessica Martinez, who has made a name for herself all over the world through her many activities and travels around beer. Jessica is Head Brewer, Beer Sommelier and International Beer and Mead Judge. She is undoubtedly one of the most outstanding female brewers in Mexico, because in addition to her invaluable experience, she is also a leader and promoter of women. Among her achievements, her participation as a beer judge in more than 32 prestigious national and international events stands out, as well as her participation in different lectures, training courses and collaborations in beer brewing. Finally, it is worth mentioning that Jessica is the creator of Morrigan beer, a Scotch Ale style craft beer that has participated in multiple competitions and has been decorated with more than 10 prestigious awards. In BierTalk, we taste another of her creations, the avocado beer called Avobeer, which currently comes in three different varieties…

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Markus Raupach: Hello and welcome to another episode of our podcast BierTalk. Today, it’s a very special episode because we are not in Germany, we are live in Mexico, in the beautiful city of Tampico. And I’m here because of the competition of the Aro Rojo, which is a Mexican international beer competition. And I’m sitting here with Jessica Martinez. She is a beer sommelier or beer consultant and also brewer. And we have some beers of her and we are just about to talk a little bit about her idea of beer and how she came into beer. And of course, we will try some of her beers. So maybe first Jessica, introduce yourself to our listeners. What is you about?

Jessica Martinez: Well, first of all, thank you, Markus so much for inviting me to your podcast. So well, yes, I’m from Mexico, Mexico City and I’ve been into beer well, since I have memory. But like more in professional way, probably like 19 years. And I tried my first like craft beer, a different beer from microbeers in 2007. So yeah, I was like amazed by the flavours and by all the profile and all you can find in the beer. Besides, I wasn’t working with developing my sensory skills. I just said like, wow, what is this? And I want more of this. I want to know what’s behind. So I started like, a journey searching, reading what I could and yes, until I get to the Sommelier Association in Mexico. And they have like course for training for Beer Sommeliers, so yes, I took the course in 2013 and I became a judge by next year. But being a judge is not only to get the certification or a paper, you know? So yeah, that’s where I started my, when I started my judge career too.

Markus Raupach: Perfect, that sounds wonderful. Maybe first for the listeners a little bit about the beer scene in Mexico because many of our listeners are in Germany, and maybe they don’t know anything about Mexico. Maybe beaches or something like that. Or maybe sombreros or pyramids.

Jessica Martinez: Yes, the Mayans.

Markus Raupach: But what is it about? How is beer in Mexico and how is it today?

Jessica Martinez: Yeah, well beer in Mexico, the beer culture in Mexico is basically like microbeers. So people drink a lot of beer, but all we know, it’s like there is a pale beer and a dark beer, all lagers. And the craft beer movement started probably like 20 years ago, something like that. But it was so tiny, so tiny, just like probably two breweries. And after the years like the boom, the big boom of craft beer movement was 2015, between 2013, 2015, like many craft beer breweries started to popping up and everywhere by now. Like officially registered breweries probably it’s around 2000 breweries in the whole country.

Markus Raupach: That’s a lot.

Jessica Martinez: As you may know, Mexico is a big country. So we have interesting, different kinds of, not tendencies, but like trends in all over the country. Like some parts of the country brew like really hoppy beers, and the other part of the country more like coffee, chocolate beers, or herb and spice beers, or lagers. The lager brewing is starting and it’s getting stronger every day. So yeah, the craft beer movement in Mexico, it’s really growing a lot recently in after the pandemic even more.

Markus Raupach: Yeah, that’s really impressive and I have to say, I was here now and I was in the competition, and I had many, many beers. So it’s a high quality, it’s a very high variety of different beers. You have your spices, you have your fruits, but you also do the traditional styles. So that’s a very interesting country in terms of beer, and it’s 130 million people. So of course, it’s also huge in population. One question, I met many, many female brewers. So is that also something in Mexico which is quite common, that girls also want to go into the brewing business?

Jessica Martinez: It’s not that common actually. I don’t exactly remember like the percentage of female brewers or female involved within beer industry, but probably about 28 or 30%. So it’s like, it’s growing of course. But that is for women involved in breweries like, design or sales or recently is for brewing, it’s even less probably, I don’t know, 5% or something. But yeah, there are, or we are getting more interested in beer and we have to let people know and let more girls to know that you can do that, then you can find a way to do that.

Markus Raupach: Yeah. So I was really happy to see that and also how you love beer and show your personal feelings about it, and that’s really very also impressive for me. So mainly, let’s talk about your beer. So when did you start brewing? And what beers do you do? And yeah.

Jessica Martinez: Well, of course I started with home brewing because I wanted to know like, yeah, of course the process to be a better judge. Actually, that was like my goal for brewing, for a start brewing. Because yes, once I was judging, and I wondered myself, like, how the hell am I going to tell the brewer how to do his job or her job if I don’t know well, the processes and everything? So yeah, I started doing that. Before I became a judge, I used to brew like, not pointing like interested. But after that, yes. So it was probably between 2013, 2014. So yeah, I started home brewing and my friends, I was invited to some festivals, beer festivals. So the first time I sold my beer, sold, sell, what?

Markus Raupach: Sold.

Jessica Martinez: Yeah, I loved it, because when people try your beer in, like, you can see the face enjoying and they tell you, oh my God, it’s delicious. Or it reminds me of something I used to drink or whatever. So I said, yes, I like this. And all the creation process and creativity for developing a recipe, it makes me still here, right? So after home brewing, maybe after one year and a half, or probably two years, I was working on developing my recipes and like perfection in my recipes before I became like an official professional brewery and sell my beer in like, tap rooms or well, places where you.

Markus Raupach: Shops.

Jessica Martinez: Yeah, shops or beer boutiques, whatever. So yeah, by 2015, I just, yeah, created Malteza and I just had one beer, which was whey heavy. I used to brew like many beers, but to be like a professional brewery, I just thought about it and I told myself, no, I can’t start with a lot of beers. So just one and let’s see how does it work? Because actually, I didn’t know how it would be like the business over here in Mexico. So I was like just one and let’s see how does it work. And then maybe I will add another one. But no, I stayed producing just single beer, whey heavy, (Morianis? #00:08:39#), the name. So yeah, that’s why I started into brewing.

Markus Raupach: And that continued until the pandemic came. And then you made a pause or?

Jessica Martinez: No, actually, well, I don’t own a brewery. So I do contract brewing. And while in pandemic, it was really difficult to keep brewing because the one batch that I used to sell in probably one month, it went like two, three months. So I was like, no, it doesn’t make any sense to keep brewing and with places closed and no. So it didn’t make any sense to do that. So I told myself, well, probably I have to stop and come back after pandemic or I don’t know. And a couple of months or years before I wanted like to diversify my activities within beer industry because of education, because I realized about the need of beer education here in Mexico and consultancy about the processes in, yeah, since we’re training for brewers or something. So I told myself, well, maybe this is a moment to get focused in all those activities. So I started focus like my job more in consultancy and beer education.

Markus Raupach: Cool and some of these products we have here, which is very interesting. You told me a little bit about it. The name is AvoBeer.

Jessica Martinez: Yes.

Markus Raupach: So I think you will let us know why it’s called AvoBeer. And also we have three of these beers here. And yeah, maybe to first introduce it to us, the idea, and then we can start with one of these nice cans.

Jessica Martinez: Okay. Well, this AvoBeer is a project from Moralia. It was like a baby born in pandemic and that’s, like, one of my projects for consultancy. So I’m in charge for beer production, developing new recipes and to coordinate all the brewing days and activities related with beer production. And this is a concept in Morelia, well Morelia, Michoacan better said. Michoacan is like the first state of Mexico exporting avocado in production too. So yeah, there’s family who, yeah, have like … I don’t know how to say where there are avocado trees.

Markus Raupach: Like avocado farms or plants or?

Jessica Martinez: Yes, exactly, farms. They have like avocado farms and they do that all related with avocados. So they produce avocado oil for cooking and avocado cosmetics. Like some lotions for your face and everything. So they love beer and I don’t know, once the one of them said why we don’t brew a beer, we have a beer, our own beer, like another avocado product. So they met a beer equipment producer here from Mexico and he sold equipment. So then they realized they didn’t have someone to start production and how to do that. So that’s when I came into that project. And so the idea is basically to have like classical and traditional beer styles using some parts of the avocado tree, not the avocado pulp, but the tree. So what we use in these beers is the avocado pit, avocado leaf, and avocado honey. By now, I haven’t like tried to do something else, or the pulp because of the fat and because it will require many other processes to see if it works. Because what I tried to do with these beers is to have all the base beer profile and that this edition of the avocado element, like to enhance some of the qualities of beer and the characteristics of the beer. So you will try them.

Markus Raupach: Very innovative and interesting also because maybe these are also a little bit byproducts of the normal production. So you even use more of the plant and that’s also something that’s sustainability and it’s also really an interesting approach to make that. So you really go to new ground with this idea. And yeah, okay, which one? We have three here, a brown ale, a porter and weiss beer. So with which you want to start?

Jessica Martinez: The weiss beer, of course.

Markus Raupach: Of course. So will you open it? Should I?

Jessica Martinez: You, of course, please.

Markus Raupach: Okay. So now we can hear it’s a can, so it’s a typical size of 355 millilitres. It’s right in my glass and I give you something also. Okay, so now we have this beautiful wide can and this AvoBeer written in golden letters on it. And it’s a weiss beer. So a little bit, I should know the style. Let’s see. And it’s a beautiful colour, it’s some like honeyish, golden, it’s hazy, and we have a beautiful foam on it. So very stable, small bubbles.

Jessica Martinez: Well I have to say something about the leaves. Because here in Mexico we used to cook a lot with avocado leaves, but the process of those leaves are like dehydrated, like by the sunlight or in dehydrators. So using the leaves in that way gives you more like some spicy note or anise or that kind of profile. But how we use the avocado leaves, it’s dried freeze. So it keeps like the freshness of the leaves and it gives like a more fruity, fresh herbal profile. So it’s quite different.

Markus Raupach: Okay, so very interesting. I never had something cooked with avocado leaf. So yeah, but it’s a very interesting smell. So you also have the weiss bier notes in the background but in the foreground, it’s green, it’s also some herbal citrusy, like essential oils and a bit like olive also. And of course avocado. But to be honest, I don’t know the fruit so well. I liked guacamole and we have sometimes something in Germany. But it’s not like my daily food. But it’s a very interesting, very intense smell. Very nice. What is the professional description?

Jessica Martinez: The professional description …

Markus Raupach: (unv. #00:15:49#)

Jessica Martinez: We’ll do like free fresh, some kind of like orange, like sweet orange, citrusy, and like minty a little bit.

Markus Raupach: Oh yes, yeah. And fresh also so really interesting and so cheers. Very creamy. So here’s the weiss beer. Also some banana in the background and also, again, this intense aroma of the avocado leaf. So that’s, really it’s, you see the base beer style. But you also have this very intense aroma. I didn’t expect that. That’s so, so huge. In a way it’s so very, very noticeable. So how many batches did you have to do before you ended up with this almost perfect beer?

Jessica Martinez: Like, about three.

Markus Raupach: Wow.

Jessica Martinez: But I’m like, actually, like, fine tuning also the profile of the leaves because I want it to be more subtle. So yes, I’m still working on it.

Markus Raupach: Are you able to control the intensity of the leaves? Or is it just by the amount?

Jessica Martinez: By the amount. I’m doing it by the amount.

Markus Raupach: And when do you add them in the process?

Jessica Martinez: Whirlpool.

Markus Raupach: In the whirlpool.

Jessica Martinez: Yeah.

Markus Raupach: So very interesting. So, dear listeners, it may be hard for you to get these beers. But if you come to Mexico, you should definitely look for the AvoBeer and it’s really a nice idea. And what about your customers? Were they happy with this beer?

Jessica Martinez: Yes, they actually, from. Well, you have different preferences for the customers. But you should, they like this beer, especially in warm weather and for starting drinking days with food or family meetings. They like it.

Markus Raupach: And how do they sell it? Together with avocado things or separate?

Jessica Martinez: No, separate.

Markus Raupach: Separate.

Jessica Martinez: Yes, separate.

Markus Raupach: And it’s available in beer stores all over Mexico.

Jessica Martinez: Online, we have like hum develop? No.

Markus Raupach: Like a shop? Online shop?

Jessica Martinez: Yes, online shop, yes. And yes in some beer stores, restaurants, tap rooms. Yeah.

Markus Raupach: Yeah, fantastic.

Jessica Martinez: You find it in one beer shop or tap room.

Markus Raupach: Yes, I found it. Yeah. Yeah. I have to tell you, we were talking about that when we met in Mexico City. And I just had it in my background, but I thought okay, you already told me there is no beer anymore and whatever. And then I went in a beer shop, beer store in Mexico City and in one of the shelves in the middle where the, there are five cans of it. So one of the weiss beer and two of the other ones. And so I was oh, maybe it’s the right one. I looked a bit closer and so I bought them and so we met here again. So that’s wonderful that we can taste them together. So yeah, it’s really great. Fantastic. Thanks. Anything to add in terms of description from your side?

Jessica Martinez: Well, about footprint, yeah, it’s wonderful. And actually we want to create identity. And of course avocado, we Mexicans are proud of our avocado. So it’s like yes, avocado beer and we try also to enhance like the idea of pairing the beer with traditional food, Mexican food. So yeah.

Markus Raupach: So what would be your suggestion to have with it?

Jessica Martinez: For example, like traditional dishes. You try carnitas, right? So it pairs really good with carnitas which are from Michoacan. Also, gazpacho which is like.

Markus Raupach: The soup?

Jessica Martinez: No. In Michoacan, gazpacho is like a fruit cocktail.

Markus Raupach: Oh.

Jessica Martinez: So you have like pineapple, oranges, and they added like some special cheese, and you have lemon, you have like all the citrusy profile and tropical fruits profile. So it works really good.

Markus Raupach: That really sounds like a very good food pairing. Because it’s not so sweet.

Jessica Martinez: Yeah.

Markus Raupach: Which some weiss beers are, but this is not. And I think that’s a good thing, because then the leaves can shine better. And if you have it with the fruit cocktail, you have all these fruity aromas, it combines together. And I already kind of mentioned it’s a nice thing. Was it the first of the AvoBeers you did?

Jessica Martinez: Yes. That’s the first one.

Markus Raupach: Great.

Jessica Martinez: Yeah.

Markus Raupach: So I’m looking forward to the next one if you don’t mind.

Jessica Martinez: Yes, of course.

Markus Raupach: So we just clean the glasses a little bit. So now we have a green can and a black can. In the green can is the brown ale and in the black one is of course the porter. So I’m curious which one we are tasting as the next one. Ah the green one. So we go to the brown ale.

Jessica Martinez: Yes, the brown ale.

Markus Raupach: Okay, maybe you want to. Okay, I think (unv. #00:21:09#).

Jessica Martinez: You can do the (honours?).

Markus Raupach: Okay. So again, cans. Maybe while I’m pouring the beer, we have cans here. So is the can the normal thing in Mexico? Or is it also the bottle?

Jessica Martinez: Yes, the most common packaging for beer is of course bottles. But recently, many brewers prefer to pack the beer in cans because of the freshness and because it’s easier to transport beers. And yes, there are many suppliers for what, not many, reasonably but yeah. We have a couple of suppliers for cans and for canning machines. And yes, yes.

Markus Raupach: Maybe it also protects the beer better.

Jessica Martinez: Exactly.

Markus Raupach: Because you have a lot of sunlight here and warm temperature, and that’s not the best thing in bottles. So yeah, and the beers are really fresh out of the cans. So I always say in Germany that the can is the best device for a beer as long as you drink it out of a glass. Because many people tend to drink it out of the bottle, out of the can, and then it’s not good. But if you pour it in a glass, then it’s perfect.

Jessica Martinez: Yeah, but something interesting is that yeah, well craft breweries prefer or yeah, we prefer like to bottle, to get the beer in a can. But most of the people like microbeer consumers think they are going to get like the aluminium or flavour or something like that. So they say no, it’s a can. No, I prefer the bottle. So yeah.

Markus Raupach: Yeah, we had that in Germany too. But I think it was something with the cans of the 80s and 90s. At these times, I remember when I was a child we always had like lemonade in cans and it always had some metallic flavours.

Jessica Martinez: Flavour.

Markus Raupach: Okay, at these times, maybe something went from the cans into the drink. But nowadays cans are sealed, so I think it’s no problem anymore.

Jessica Martinez: Yeah.

Markus Raupach: Yeah, it’s also better for sending and for keeping, so yeah. So but now, let’s talk about the brown ale.

Jessica Martinez: Yeah.

Markus Raupach: It is definitely a brown ale. So again, wonderful colour, nice brownish colours and some red hints or orange even, and also very nice foam. So that’s really impressive. Small bubbles are a nice tan colour. So yeah, fantastic. Looks really like a brown ale. And it’s one of my favourite beer types to be honest.

Jessica Martinez: Really?

Markus Raupach: Yeah, yeah, because I liked the caramel and nutty character, and also in Great Britain, where it comes from, it’s the beer to go if you have a nice evening or something like that.

Jessica Martinez: Yeah, and it’s not really common here in Mexico. Breweries brew brown ale. Like they’re not interesting in (unv. #00:24:02#).

Markus Raupach: You made an interesting thing. Okay, let’s have the smell. So we have the typical elements of a brown ale. So there is caramel, there’s toasty, some biscuit, there are nutty aromas also. Yeah, like a little bit of candy. So I think it’s typical British candies with toffee in it and very, very nice smell and also there’s some interesting spiciness or something which is not normal for a brown ale. Which is, you take a deep, deep breath, so at the end, then it’s there and it stays there. It’s quite on the end of your breath. So yeah. Which part of the avocado do we have in this beer?

Jessica Martinez: This one, we use the avocado pit which is interesting because a first, well working with those kinds of ingredients takes your time because you have to, like study the ingredient and to work on some testing for finding the best way to use it. And to find like, which beer style fits with it, right? So I have like the character for the weiss beer and I say, yeah, the avocado leaves works with it. And for this case, they told me oh why don’t we brew like the same beer and with avocado. And I say, no. Because the avocado gives you that nutty, peanut profile. So of course, it has to go with it, because it matches like the profile. And it enhances like the nutty profile of the beer. So yes, we use the avocado pit, milled, in dry freeze, too, because it has a lot of also fat and yes, it’s a slightly toasted roast. Yes. A little bit milled and dried freeze.

Markus Raupach: And the pit is more or less the core of the avocado fruit. So the inner part or the seed.

Jessica Martinez: The seed.

Markus Raupach: Yeah.

Jessica Martinez: Yes it’s the seed. Yeah, yeah.

Markus Raupach: Because yeah, just for the German listeners to know, it’s the big thing inside.

Jessica Martinez: Yeah, yeah. It’s the seed of the avocado. Yeah, exactly. And actually, something interesting is like the avocado leaf and the avocado pit has a lot of nutrients and omega, and it’s like some kind of, it has some kind of benefits. And they also, there are companies who sell like the like bags or packages with avocado leaves and avocado pit. So people eat it and consume it as a supplement for health benefits.

Markus Raupach: Very interesting. So it’s also healthy in a way if we don’t talk about the alcohol. So yeah, let’s have a sip. Cheers.

Jessica Martinez: Cheers.

Markus Raupach: Also great. You have the brown ale, but then you have I think that is the roasted pit which brings really, more intenseness in it. Also, a little bit of bitterness also I think. And yeah.

Jessica Martinez: Yes. Because it’s a bitterness that doesn’t come from the hops.

Markus Raupach: Yes.

Jessica Martinez: Exactly.

Markus Raupach: You feel it because also in the end, hop bitterness is very different in the finish. This is really, but also nice. It’s like covering a little bit your mouth, stays quite a long time. But it’s also mixing good with the nutty character, which is more than a normal brown ale, maybe because of the roasting.

Jessica Martinez: Yeah, exactly.

Markus Raupach: And it’s, but it’s very creamy. So very nice mouthfeel. Really interesting. Another beer I never tasted before. Of course, because it’s really maybe the only beer with avocado in the world. Or did you hear something about that similar?

Jessica Martinez: Well, I know that there are a couple of beers or breweries, who use avocado leaves, but they use it like in the old way, not dried freeze, dehydrated leaves. But avocado pit?

Markus Raupach: No.

Jessica Martinez: No.

Markus Raupach: Okay. Great. So what did your customers say when you had the idea and told them okay, we’re going to put the pit in the beer?

Jessica Martinez: Actually, you know, it has been really hard for people to understand. The beer doesn’t have kind of pulp. So the first image that comes to their minds, it’s like, oh avocado beer, oh, it should be green and so thick and it will taste like guacamole or something. So it has been really hard. So marketing team has really hard work for that.

Markus Raupach: Wow, yeah. What is your food pairing suggestion with that?

Jessica Martinez: Well, here you can get like some kind of, I don’t know, probably burgers or some kind of street food. You can try it with mole too. Some kind of other like sauces with dried chillies can work with it. Some kind of tacos or yeah.

Markus Raupach: Yeah, mole I can really imagine goes very well with it. It’s a special salsa sauce which you get here in Mexico and it has some chocolate in it. And it’s very, can be very spicy but also a bit sweet. And also the chocolate aroma and I think that’s something that matches very well with this beer. So also another advice for you listeners, if you come to Mexico, to try mole and maybe to get this beer. I don’t know if you want to tell about the secret, but when do you put in the pit?

Jessica Martinez: Mash.

Markus Raupach: Mash. So at the very beginning of the process.

Jessica Martinez: Yes, yeah.

Markus Raupach: Wow. And (with lowering? #00:29:59#), no problems? It’s all easy?

Jessica Martinez: No, no problem at all. Yeah.

Markus Raupach: Great. And how big is the brewery there?

Jessica Martinez: It’s pretty small actually, 2.5 BBLs. But I also, as it is a small brewery, I have to do extra contract brewing too. So at our own brewery, yeah, 2.5 BBLs, and for the contract brewing, 15 BBLs.

Markus Raupach: So BBL is the American version, and that’s barrels? And if we talk about hectolitre it’s a bit more. So it’s maybe 3 hectolitre, something like that.

Jessica Martinez: Yeah exactly. Three, four hectolitres and for the second one, I can’t …

Markus Raupach: It’s not important. You can look on Wikipedia and then there’s a translation between barrels and hectolitres. Just if you have in mind, it’s a bit more, so. But it’s still a small brewery. So and I’m really wanting to have the last one. So we have a black can now before us. Thank you. It’s really a great beer.

Jessica Martinez: I’m really happy you’re enjoying them.

Markus Raupach: Yeah, it’s so special. So yeah, you have, I have all that what I like in a brown ale, but I have something in addition and that’s a nice thing. So maybe you want to open the last.

Jessica Martinez: Okay.

Markus Raupach: So now it’s a black can, also with a golden label on it. It looks really beautiful. Do you also do something with the design?

Jessica Martinez: No. I’m not in charge of this.

Markus Raupach: And you pour much better than me. Yeah, we have a wonderful foam. Again, it’s really very stable. Also small bubbles and it’s quite dark, the beer and the foam. Almost have brown, dark brown, but also a little bit redish hint, I would say. And maybe where do you get the malt? Also, here in Mexico?

Jessica Martinez: Yes, in Mexico.

Markus Raupach: Or is it imported?

Jessica Martinez: Yes, some imported and some it’s from here, from Mexico. All the hops and yeast get imported.

Markus Raupach: Normally from the US, I think.

Jessica Martinez: Yeah, yes. (Tachima? #00:32:17#)

Markus Raupach: Which is another thing. We’re talking another series of the podcast. It’s a beautiful, beautiful place and they’re beautiful hops and great breweries too. But now we’re talking about this beer. So yeah, it looks wonderful. So now I have a smelling. So there’s a lot of chocolate, a lot of licorice, a lot of coffee. Also like malt coffee, and again some toffee caramel. Is it a normal porter or a stronger porter?

Jessica Martinez: Baltic.

Markus Raupach: Baltic, oh a Baltic porter. But it’s not a lager? Is it a lager?

Jessica Martinez: Yeah.

Markus Raupach: Yeah?

Jessica Martinez: Well, I use temperatures lager, but I use American yeast.

Markus Raupach: So you quite cold fermentation?

Jessica Martinez: Yeah, exactly.

Markus Raupach: Very interesting. And there’s also something like a tonka bean inside, so we get also again, some spicy aroma. Yeah, I like it. Did I forget something?

Jessica Martinez: Yes, of course.

Markus Raupach: Of course.

Jessica Martinez: The special ingredient for this beer is avocado honey, avocado blossom honey.

Markus Raupach: Ah it’s the honey. Okay.

Jessica Martinez: Yes. So well as you will know, we have in Mexico like a lot of varieties of honey and we’re, yeah, honey producers. And well, we have to use avocado blossom honey and the profile of the avocado blossom honey, it’s colour it’s really dark. And it’s very complex and intense and it has like molasses and like burned caramels. It has a slightly smokiness in it. So it’s quite interesting, like the avocado honey. So I used to consume it before brewing with it, this beer. So yeah, I just say it has to go with a Baltic porter also because it enhances like all the caramel profile, the sweetness and slightly smokiness in it. It’s like very interesting. So for these three, like the most like pungent powerful one, it’s the first one. But for the next two beers like porter, I wanted to do it like more subtle and just like to enhance some characteristics of the beer. So yeah.

Markus Raupach: Yeah, I think that is that what I thought was like tonka bean, and I think already we have in Germany we have also quite, we say heavy honey. So it’s very thick and quite dark and a lot of aroma and normally it’s in the forests. And yeah, and now if you say it I really had this honeyish aroma but it’s really complex. It’s not only just sweeter or something, it’s really a lot of aroma. So the honey is produced by the company also? Or do you buy it?

Jessica Martinez: No, no, neither the avocado leaves, no, none of these three ingredients. So we have to get from suppliers.

Markus Raupach: Okay, so now we have a sip. Cheers.

Jessica Martinez: Cheers.

Markus Raupach: Very, very creamy again. I really like the mouthfeel and it starts sweet and then you get the chocolate, the coffee and then this special aroma of the honey gets and takes over. And the longer you have it in your mouth and after drinking, the more you get the honey. And it’s really like yeah, like blossoming. So you can imagine even the waves, like if you have a fresh honey, it’s in the end of the palate. And then afterwards it comes also the porter again. So it’s like playing a little bit with the aroma and it’s very, very well balanced. So it’s a really nice pleasant drink with sweetness, bitterness and this really interesting honey character. I also didn’t have avocado honey before, so maybe I get some at the airport, then I will try some more.

Jessica Martinez: Yeah. I don’t think you can find it at the airport. But next time.

Markus Raupach: Next time, yes. Always good to have a next time, yeah. Fantastic. So and when do you add the honey?

Jessica Martinez: Whirlpool too.

Markus Raupach: Whirlpool, oh.

Jessica Martinez: Yes, yes.

Markus Raupach: And how about the fermentation? Is it more boostering the fermentation?

Jessica Martinez: Yeah, actually [inaudible 00:37:05]. Yes of course, yes. You have like about 80, 85% fermentable sugars from honey. So yes, I have to calculate like the recipe for like before adding the honey and yeah, the gravity like, yeah rises because of the honey, of course.

Markus Raupach: So you brew more or less a light beer and then you add the porter, the honey, or?

Jessica Martinez: Yeah, kind of. Yeah. Not so light but …

Markus Raupach: Okay. So at the end, how strong is it?

Jessica Martinez: Probably like about 0.8 or 0.9 degrees for alcohol comes from the honey.

Markus Raupach: So at the end, what is this the alcoholic strength of it?

Jessica Martinez: Seven.

Markus Raupach: Seven. Okay, so impressive. A really self-confident beer with a lot of aroma, a lot of intensity, a lot of really also for me, totally new aspects. And I like the play in the mouth that it’s between sweet and honey, and then you have the liquorish also and then it’s chocolate again, then honey again. So it’s a nice play with aromas. And what would be your food pairing suggestion with that?

Jessica Martinez: Beefsteaks.

Markus Raupach: You couldn’t even marinate them.

Jessica Martinez: Yes, yes. You could actually make like some kind of, to reduce like the beer and you have to use it like for, I don’t know how to say it, for the beef.

Markus Raupach: For the beef of course. So, it’s really …

Jessica Martinez: For the grill, also with mole, it could work with mole negro. It could work really good. What else? Some kind of enchiladas and octopus.

Markus Raupach: Octopus, okay.

Jessica Martinez: Octopus, yes, yes.

Markus Raupach: Yeah, I can also imagine nice, because it also has some, I would not say citrusy. But in this it goes a little bit in that direction. That’s also there.

Jessica Martinez: Yeah, like specifically, like grilled octopus with some kind of a double too. Like some kind of tri tip, with the spices.

Markus Raupach: Oh okay. Great. So fantastic. Maybe last question about these beers. When you gave the beers to your friends or to your family, what did they say?

Jessica Martinez: They had different preferences. Because for example, my dad loves the porter. My mom, the brown ale. My sister doesn’t drink alcohol. But some friends prefer like the first one, like weiss beer because it’s more like drinkable, like refreshing and like fruity. Yeah, they prefer sometimes even more like the weiss beer. But yeah, you can get like different preferences for the beers. And yeah, they say like, I didn’t know like I can get that beer with the avocado leaves or the pit. They didn’t know, even people used to eat it.

Markus Raupach: Yeah.

Jessica Martinez: So yeah, but sometimes, as I said before, it’s really complicated to make people understand that it’s not the pulp.

Markus Raupach: And which one sells best from these?

Jessica Martinez: Recently the porter because it won medal, gold medal in the competition in March, last March. And yeah, here in Mexico, well not here, in Mexico City, the porter, it’s like the first for the tributes. In Morelia, it’s the weiss beer.

Markus Raupach: Okay.

Jessica Martinez: Yeah. Actually, I think people are not so familiar with the brown ale because it’s like the last one. But yeah.

Markus Raupach: Interesting. My favorite would be I think the brown ale. I like them all three, but the brown ale is for me because I like the beer style and it’s really interesting with the pit, and so great. What are your plans for the future? And what more avocado parts you want to use for something?

Jessica Martinez: Yes, yes. I want to, yeah, the same parts, but using or trying to use in different kind of beer styles. Actually, now I’m developing like an (old trial beer/ultra beer? #00:41:34#) like low in calories and a lager beer. And I’m using the avocado leaf for that one.

Markus Raupach: So I’m curious. That will be very interesting. So thank you much for your time and for letting us know about your beers. We will of course include the links and things in the show notes so that the listeners can also look for your brewery and your beers and all these things. And I’m looking forward to see you at least next year here in Mexico again, and then we maybe can talk about the next beers of the series or other beers made by your brewery. So thanks a lot and have a nice time today.

Jessica Martinez: Thank you so much for having me and I hope people are interested a little bit about this beers. Thank you so much. And welcome to Mexico again.

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